Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

[neutral]

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Of course widespread poverty and despair, the lack of hope for a better future or a chance for a better future is what drives Jamaica's youth into lives of violence and crime.

That is why all the things that have been tried to stop the crime, drug use, violence and corruption do not work.

These methods address the symptoms and attempt to suppress them through further threats and violence which only exacerbate the situation.

</div></div>

This I agree with,and it all seem so obvious to me and you and all right thinking people,yet it seems so frustrating that what is obvious to us isnt obvious to the politicians who are in positions to effect change,...it just seems like its in their interest to allow things to remain as they are as long as the crime doesnt impact on *their* lives.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newtriment</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Of course widespread poverty and despair, the lack of hope for a better future or a chance for a better future is what drives Jamaica's youth into lives of violence and crime.

That is why all the things that have been tried to stop the crime, drug use, violence and corruption do not work.

These methods address the symptoms and attempt to suppress them through further threats and violence which only exacerbate the situation.

</div></div>

This I agree with,and it all seem so obvious to me and you and all right thinking people,yet it seems so frustrating that what is obvious to us isnt obvious to the politicians who are in positions to effect change,...it just seems like its in their interest to allow things to remain as they are as long as the crime doesnt impact on *their* lives. </div></div>


Newtriment,

The politicians of both the JLP and PNP are products of and creatures of the status quo.
The status quo is political i.e. the existing non-democratic run-from-the-top electoral system wherein small groups of party members in the two major parties decide from amongst their party members who will run to represent the people.

The status quo is also economic and is closely tied to the two parties in that the power elite are either themselves of the monied elite or as in most capitalist /multi party political system countries are controlled by them in one way or another (contributions to campaigns, thought control of the media, old boy links on the golf course etc.

It is not at all possible for the two major parties of capitalism to change.
It is not even possible for someone who is serious about change to rise to the point of power in either of the two parties at which he/she has the power to effect REAL change.

If they were too successful, they would:
A) probably lose in the next election if the people got to choose their elected representative and not the party's hack.
B) definitely lose the financial backing of their rich friends were they to change the economic system to something more egalitarian and democratic.
C) be run into the ground by the media which would still be owned and controlled by the wealthy.
D) get the country invaded or economically warred-upon by the United States.
E) face the social destabilization now being exerted by those who oppose change in Latin America: the wealthy and violent right.

As said and as unacknowledged by the general population and decidedly denied and/or ignored by the power elite in the government and economic spheres, DEMOCRACY both electorally and economically is what is needed to effect any real change in what is happening in Jamaica.

Real change cannot and will not happen under the totalitarian political systems of the JLP/PNP.

They will not reform the political system because they'll be out of a job.
They cannot reform capitalism which is not only not reformable but which doesn't work especially in under-developed countries because .......guess why?
Right again....because they'll be out of a job.

When people have good jobs to go to every workday, when they can see a good or reasonable future ahead, when they don't have to fear for their health or their family's well being, crime and drug use problems will be a thing of the past.

Without these fundamental changes, nothing changes and things in a sinking RICH capitalist world can only mean even tougher times for the poor and working man in Jamaica.


You can't put a bandage on a cancer and expect a miracle which is exactly what &quot;reform&quot; of the present systems does.

[Wahalla]

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

guess that does not include blowing people up then ?

[johnnycakes]

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

&quot;guess that does not include blowing people up then ?&quot;

Well, maybe just your inflatable girlfriend.

[Wahalla]

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;guess that does not include blowing people up then ?&quot;

Well, maybe just your inflatable girlfriend. </div></div>

In future when I quote this as an example of your inteligence.. dont ask the date.

As I recalled you stated that to solve the activities of the fisherpirates in Jamaica you advocated blowing them up without trial... (Do you want me to give you the full quote ???? and the date ????)

It seems as per normal the lack of capacity to engage beyond the repeated / quoting others demonstrated leaves you incapable of thought and only capable of recyling hacknied insults..... Still you think of your self as a inteligent yanki.... good...... What next ???? Traitor, pimp.. spelling ..??????

[johnnycakes]

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

&quot;In future when I quote this as an example of your inteligence.. dont ask the date &quot;


Sure, and when I quote the above as an example of you also lacking a sense of humor, don't ask why.


.&quot;...lack of capacity to engage beyond the repeated / quoting others.&quot;


Well Brainiac, unlike you, I don't believe that I know more than a whole lot of people who spend their lives studying and living in certain fields of knowledge. Neither do I believe that the philosophies and ideas I have were created by me.

Not much in the world is new except perhaps your unique spelling and any ideas either you or I have were read and learned from others.

Neither do I believe that as good as I am as regards English language usage that there are not others who can state what I feel in much better terms and with different and more effective perspectives.

That's why I quote others and post reprints from Znet.
Few if any have ever been shown by you and others to be in error.

So save your breath.

You'll need it for your next &quot;date&quot;.

[Wahalla]

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;In future when I quote this as an example of your inteligence.. dont ask the date &quot;


Sure, and when I quote the above as an example of you also lacking a sense of humor, don't ask why.


.&quot;...lack of capacity to engage beyond the repeated / quoting others.&quot;


Well Brainiac, unlike you, I don't believe that I know more than a whole lot of people who spend their lives studying and living in certain fields of knowledge. Neither do I believe that the philosophies and ideas I have were created by me.

Not much in the world is new except perhaps your unique spelling and any ideas either you or I have were read and learned from others.

Neither do I believe that as good as I am as regards English language usage that there are not others who can state what I feel in much better terms and with different and more effective perspectives.

That's why I quote others and post reprints from Znet.
Few if any have ever been shown by you and others to be in error.

So save your breath.

You'll need it for your next &quot;date&quot;. </div></div>

Spending a life time interpreing merely means they have an opnion. Their opion is of no mor validity than any other adult. That is the basis of humanity, of equality. Opnions does not gain greater validity base on study or as a great Jamaican put it..

<span style="font-weight: bold">what has been hidden from wise and the prudent
has been revealed to babe and suckling</span>

But then I know that Jamaicans/ Caribeans are the ultimate Nietzschean super humen.. Tested by history.. Cultures re interpreted and redefined to allowed a transgeneration evolution where each opnion is as valid.......

No I know less than most ... I also belevie that my opnion and interpretation of history is as valid as any ones.. be they Garvey, Trosky, Marx, Chomsky Stalin or Red Ken. Much less a Zednet journalist. I am willing to engage with Chomsy or any one else... (And I will add have argues with Fujuyama as to the basis of his ideas...) and question the validity of anyones assertion base on my own interpretation of history backed up by &quot;case law&quot; as well as ancedotal information. Which is exactly what each has done, so I grant my self the same benifit as we are all equal at the interpretation of events... Be they Yankee German Jamaican or Eskimo..

Leaving an interpretation unquestioned is the basis of dictatorship. Which is fundamentally what Marxism and any of its weak iteration demands of its adherents as they impose it without question using the claim of &quot;the greater good&quot;. This creats the atmosphere of poltical short sighted ness leading to effective Fascism or &quot;Furher praise&quot; where by the leaders/ philoshy interpretation becomes imidiate othordoxy.... a narrowing of intelectual basis to a singular opnion does not make it a fact merely a narrow opnion.

You seem to think if it is writen on Zednet it is has become gospel... And any interpretation is contrarty cannot hold any validity. This is anti-Hegialian historical interpretation. As for the writers on Zednet they are mostly journalist as opposed to academicals.. I also know my knowledge interpretation is as valid.. So unless your basis of validation is simply that it has to be published to grant it credance.

As for the idea that your own ideas are not created by you... suggests dogma.. that the ideas you propogate have lack interpretation on your part may only apply to you. No two individuals will interpret facts or knowlege in the same manner. I guess that is the bases of different philosphopical...



I dont call stating some one use a rubber doll as houmour.. It certainly never would in Jamaica or in my and my house hold. If it passes so in your community it demonstrates a crassness and crudity which is further compounded by your opnion of &quot;blowing up&quot; suspsects without the benifit of trial, council or judgement... or is it simply the inability to veiw the opnion of others as equal to yours ??????

<span style="font-weight: bold">Rather than you resort to juvinile insults and name calling may I suggest you think ????</span> you were endoeawed with the same tools as I or Chomsky or Castro...Apply empathy and personal expereince knowledge as a prisim for interpretation. Simply applying a singular set of rules and interpretation or hijacking someone else interpretation to an event is not poltical discourse it is demonology.

Insulting some elses opnion is not debate.. but it is higher than making personal attacks....

Now if I wroted that on Zed net would it gain validity or would it be met with once more with bla, bla,bla, bla comment as is apt to happen when faced with the fact your postion is not universally applicable ????

[johnnycakes]

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime


&quot;<span style="font-weight: bold">what has been hidden from wise and the prudent
has been revealed to babe and suckling</span>&quot;


Very good, let's put a six month old in charge of the the U.S economic problem

&quot;But then I know that Jamaicans/ Caribeans are the ultimate Nietzschean super humen.&quot;

Hitler couldn't have said it better.


&quot;No I know less than most ...&quot;


Really? You had me fooled.


I also belevie that my opnion and interpretation of history is as valid as any ones.. be they Garvey, Trosky, Marx, Chomsky Stalin or Red Ken. Much less a Zednet journalist.


Znet does not have any journalists per se. What they do have and anyone who read anything there or knew anything about the website would know that Znet REPRINTS articles they find interesting alternatives to the corporate media.

Each writer's credentials/background is provided at the end of each article.

&quot;As for the idea that your own ideas are not created by you... suggests dogma.. that the ideas you propogate have lack interpretation on your part may only apply to you. No two individuals will interpret facts or knowlege in the same manner. I guess that is the bases of different philosphopical...&quot;


The major ideas and philosophies of the world have been discussed and parsed for centuries by people much more informed and wiser than you or I will ever be. It is just beyond belief that you believe that YOU have anything new to add. All we do here essentially is just present the thoughts of others when they better fit and phrase a particular subject than we can.

&quot; Now if I wroted that on Zed net would it gain validity or would it be met with once more with bla, bla,bla, bla comment as is apt to happen when faced with the fact your postion is not universally applicable ????&quot;


There is not a snowball's chance in Hell that anything you ever thought or wrote would be reprinted by Znet. Here I'm not talking of grammar, spelling et cetera which can be corrected but rather your often rambling and incoherent presentation of things as seen through your unique and very personal perspective.

Your posts are like what a French friend of mine said of France's Peugeot automobile: &quot;They take ideas from no one and no one takes any ideas from them.&quot;
They don't sell many cars but they, like others do probably use crash test dummies which have to be blown up.

OOOPS!
I did it again.

You'll have to forgive me for not taking you very seriously.

[Wahalla]

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> There is not a snowball's chance in Hell that anything you ever thought or wrote would be reprinted by Znet. </div></div>

then it is snowball in hell....

[Wahalla]

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The major ideas and philosophies of the world have been discussed and parsed for centuries by people much more informed and wiser than you or I will ever be.

<span style="font-weight: bold"> Wahalla: See I know I am better informed that any philospher up to the 1970's as well as probably more informed than most since then.... Why because I have access to more sources of information than they have.. if this minor fact sliped your attention it must be that I am more informed and aware than you are...There for that would make my opnions and interpretations superior than theses should you place the paradigm of wisdom on information... You see I know more than Scorates , aristotle, Marx and Niztchie ever could.. So does any one who sets out to be informed..

so there goes your idea.. what offends you is the fact that you cannot accept the simple idea that any one can disagree with blanket statements. And the misinterpretation of your opnions as fact.. a typically gringo attitude.. That a Jamaican could question the valiity of the basis of zed net. Oops I forgot we are not allowed to. Arrogance on my part hell no ????? fact..</span>

It is just beyond belief that you believe that YOU have anything new to add.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wahalla: No it is a historical certainty that I will have something to add. The diference is simply they are more popular.. more well know ???? Arogance on my part hell no.. Reality actually I am capable of independent thoughtso unless you are saying that no individual except those prescribed by a singular narrow limited vision of interpretations of events can add anything that statement lacks credance. (or wisdom is prescribed basis of popularity/ celebrity)..

Thus by this ill considered paradigm Bushs thought is more relevant than Johnny Cakes... You see the facility of the marxist and its weak iteration is that the societies development is to be led by a cadre of not by the masses... Now you seem to dispute that the Nitechean nature of Caribean society... Are we not as Bob put it the descentants of Survivors ???? does that not make us superior to you yankees who have exploited us ????? Not Castro is from the Caribean but he is of the exploiter class .... Are not the simplistic interpretation Nitchean with power in the hands of a few Cuban members of a poltical party prime candidates not the so called super men.. Castro mi primo placed power into the hand of a party.. A minority cadre... is tis not by its very nature what Nitchean supermen are ??? A minority....</div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div> All we do here essentially is just present the thoughts of others when they better fit and phrase a particular subject than we can </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold"> Wahalla: By what qualification does Aristotle or Marx or castro have to make any of them superior to me at interpretation than me ????? Have they studied more ???? Read more ??? Listen to more news ??? You set the bar on information not me... The only qualification they have that is diferent is I am Taino they were not ????? And yes we paraphrase the thoughts of otehrs.. The combinations of multple ideas, the concept of Heligian dielectic by itself proves that my ideas have to be more evolved to these so called thinkers because I can combine more and have access to greater sources of information. This applies to any living person ??? </span>


As for your french friend opnion of Pergouet which you have commandeer is he one of the old wise men of history ???? and did you accept is opnion without research or knoweldge on the subject.. I guess as a Yankee you are unaware of Purgoets reputation as a superior rallying car maker... But thats just me...


Crudity is not humour....

I accept you are rude.... you cant help it...

[johnnycakes]

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

&quot;Thus by this ill considered paradigm Bushs thought is more relevant than Johnny Cakes... You see the facility of the marxist and its weak iteration is that the societies development is to be led by a cadre of not by the masses... Now you seem to dispute that the Nitechean nature of Caribean society... Are we not as Bob put it the descentants of Survivors ???? does that not make us superior to you yankees who have exploited us ????? Not Castro is from the Caribean but he is of the exploiter class .... Are not the simplistic interpretation Nitchean with power in the hands of a few Cuban members of a poltical party prime candidates not the so called super men.. Castro mi primo placed power into the hand of a party.. A minority cadre... is tis not by its very nature what Nitchean supermen are ??? A minority....&quot;


I look forward to future editions of Znet for this clear and brilliant piece of &quot;writing&quot; or one of your other posts that you edit so carelessly.

Did you read what you wrote after you wrote it?
Is what you wrote clear to you and do you actually think it makes any sense to others who will read it?


But we digress.
I'm ending my side of this personal interchange so that others can get back to the topic of the thread.

My apologies to all.

[Wahalla]

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

Let me seperate the ideas....So it clear to you.. (Now who was it who claimed Yankis have a short attention span.. Wasnt me..And are you not a yanki ?????)

Thus by this ill considered paradigm Bushs thought is more relevant than Johnny Cakes... You see the facility of the marxist and its weak iteration is that the societies development is to be led by a cadre of not by the masses... Now you seem to dispute that the Nitechean nature of Caribean society...

Are we not as Bob put it the descentants of Survivors ???? does that not make us superior to you yankees who have exploited us ?????

Not Castro is from the Caribean but he is of the exploiter class ....

Are not the simplistic interpretation Nitchean with power in the hands of a few Cuban members of a poltical party prime candidates not the so called super men..

Castro mi primo placed power into the hand of a party.. A minority cadre...

is tis not by its very nature what Nitchean supermen are ??? A minority...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Is that not clear enough that I have pointed out that the idea of the PCC an iteration of Marxism is simply Nitzhean in nature.... ie the PCC has control of the Comanding heights of the economy and they are a minority.. (Do you want a 6 hopur justification of this as done by Fidel ?????)



[b]Me I simply pointed out that we the Survivors of the Caribean who were tested by history, genetically winnoed by the brutality of the middle passage, developed a soieties through the process of Hegilian Dielecticsm aplied in a cultural enviroment.. did none of this not happen ???? Guess my ideas are invalid.. And I am sure you can find a paper where someone has pointed out the combination of Heglian ideas and Nitzchism to Carribean society.. but I have never read it....


Thus any person from the Caribean based on the historical perspective wit hthe same amount of information would have a more advanced veiw of history simply based on the fact our history is more complex, more cosmopoltian..

This is actually confirmed by the events in Cuba.. When Fidel sent Che to La Cabana.. He could not send a Cuban born cadre... We (Those from the Caribean) have a superior sense of humanity and our failures. Yet compare that to what Trosky and Lenin did in Russia as they set out to butcher based on class and ethnicity. on attaining power... But I figured you knew that.

Can you dispute any of the ideas that I have presenented ????

Can you confirm that Puegoet is not of the leaders at building competitive rally cars????. And their ideas are notregularly &quot;stolen&quot; by Mitsubishi and Subaru ????? or did you simple accept the word of a French friend ?????</div></div>

[johnnycakes]

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

&quot;Not Castro is from the Caribean but he is of the exploiter class ....

Are not the simplistic interpretation Nitchean with power in the hands of a few Cuban members of a poltical party prime candidates not the so called super men..

Castro mi primo placed power into the hand of a party.. A minority cadre... &quot;



Walhalla,

Read what you wrote above.
As before it makes little or no sense except to you perhaps.

I once suggested to the resident madman that he submit his jeremiads to someone in the psychiatric profession for analysis just so he could either verify the fact that he has severe mental problems or perhaps disprove what a few of us have claimed.

In this same sense of proving or disproving that you are virtually incoherent, I suggest you take some of your more rambling posts to an editor or a professional writer and get a professional opinion to again, prove or disprove that your posts are close to unintelligible.


As to pointing out that you are incorrect there's this:

Under Poder Popular, the 500 some members of the National Assembly have SUPREME authority and not the PCC.

So you are incorrect.

Again, let the others get back to the thread and try to write with some sense of clarity of thought.

[Wahalla]

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

May I suggest you actually read the cuban contitution as to the actual role??? I actually have read it.... I also note the structural economic changes currently taking place in Cuba came from the asembly? No it came from the Cuban royal family.. the castros.....

And I guess the National assembly meets how often again ??? 6 months of the year ?????? or twice a year for 10 days.....

<span style="font-weight: bold">Now exactly who is the resident mad man ????</span>

As for above:

I guess Castro family were labours not owners of hte latifundia... So what I wrote makes no senses..

The adult population of Cuba is 250,000.. other wise what I wrote makes sense..

To qualify for membership of the PCC is done on the basis of belfiet in a single orthodoxy,a Marxist Leninism iternation...

The philosphy of marxism is not a elite cadre directing society...yep they do use the term (Bolshivick v Melschivik.. is elite rule versus mass rule) <span style="font-weight: bold">Marxist-Leninism in the cuban consitution as a driving principle</span>... (I guess that makes me wrong then..

The concept of an elite of the politeriate is not what marxism is about... And the concept of an elite is not Nieztian by nature. So I must be wrong....

As for not understanding has it ever noted no one else seems to have that issue on here except you... guess I note your fellow country men have the same problem understanding that the world outside the USA people have opnions....

A historical defense of by petty soclialist in power has always been to use the claim those whom have contratry opnion is mad and improsinging them &quot;psychiatric profession for analysis&quot; ... Shoranski was a prime example of this...and I also note the Isreali uses this same technique...

[johnnycakes]

Re: Prime minister`s revolutionary solution to crime

You just do not get it do you?


&quot;And I guess the National assembly meets how often again ??? 6 months of the year ?????? or twice a year for 10 days.....&quot;

You said you read the Cuban constitution so you should know that the sitting Council on the national Assembly tends to the day-to-day business of the country while the 470 or so other members of the National Assembly are working at their regular jobs.
ALL laws and measures passed by the president (Raul) or the sitting Council Of State are either ratified or rejected by the full National Assembly which meets twice a year.
It is the full National assembly that has supreme power, not Raul not the Council Of State.
Got it now?


&quot;Now exactly who is the resident mad man ???? &quot;


Archie68 is the (self-confessed) resident madman. His jeremiads make yours look like Shakespeare by comparison..


&quot;As for above:

I guess Castro family were labours not owners of hte latifundia... So what I wrote makes no senses..&quot;

True, the Castros were owners of a large land holding. Also true is that the Castro land holdings were the FIRST to be turned over for redistribution after the revolution.




&quot;The adult population of Cuba is 250,000.. other wise what I wrote makes sense..&quot;

The adult population of Cuba is probably around 7 or 8 million out of the 11-12 million people who live in Cuba. Like that statistic you provided, not much else you say makes sense.

I'm done. Save your breath and time. I will no longer participate in the hijacking of this thread.